Zimmerman/Martin
This Treyvon Martin case has really proven to be one of the most absurd, crazy cases I have run across in a long time. There are even folks I would have expected to know better, saying the most vile things and the lefty loons out there have already found George Zimmerman guilty. No trial, no law, no evidence to prove it wasn't self-defense, just pure emotion and hatred. If it wasn't enough to call this man a cold blood killer, he is now also considered a racist.
So, let's get a few things straight here:
1) Treyvon was not some skinny, emaciated kid. He was 17 and at least 6 feet tall. Zimmerman was also not 100 pounds bigger than him.
Outweighed, yes. By 100 pounds, no. George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who says he killed Trayvon in self-defense, outweighed him by 30 or 40 pounds, according to family members.
A Sanford police incident report says Trayvon was 6 feet tall and weighed 160 pounds. A spokesman for the family’s lawyers gave a slightly different set of numbers: 6 feet 1 and 150 pounds. Zimmerman is 5 feet 9 inches tall, according to the police report, but it is silent about his weight. A family member says he currently weighs about 190 pounds. Zimmerman used to be far heavier. A 2005 police report put his weight at 250 pounds, but security camera video released last week by Sanford police show him to be much trimmer.We may never know the exact weight or height but, it's clear that the 140 pounds and 6'3" claim by the media is a about as dumb as they come. Yet, there are people who are so void of logic and reasoning that they are repeating this lie over and over again, as if it will help make them look sane.
2) Treyvon Martin being a thug is just ONE issue. For myself, I realize that whatever Treyvon may have done before will probably not be allowed for consideration, if this case goes to trial. However, the fact that he has been suspended from school three times, was suspended at the time he was shot, and has been linked to drug use as well as minor dealing in drugs, seems to give weight to Zimmerman's story that this kid was walking around, looking suspicious, like he was up to something.
Bottom line, this story was originally presented as a little child of 12 or 13 years old being gunned down for NO reason. Now that we know more, we realize he was 17, not so tiny, and not so innocent.
The new claims, revealed in a leaked report, paint a different picture of a teenager who frequently found himself in trouble with authorities.Click here to read more.
It was also revealed that he might have attacked a bus driver, according to a Twitter account that it is claimed belonged to the teen.
The Miami Herald claims that in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver - and 12 pieces of women's jewellery. Martin insisted that they did not belong to him.
Earlier, he had been suspended for skipping school and showing up late to class. And most recently, in February, he was suspended again when officials found a 'marijuana pipe' and an empty baggie with traces of the drug.
3) George Zimmerman had injuries. Enough with this grainy police video crap. The very idea that people have suggested Zimmerman had NO injuries is absurd and ridiculous. Why anyone would think that all of the police and their chief would put their jobs on the line in order to lie for a man like Zimmerman is just stupid. He was treated at the scene and the police noted that he was bloody and injured.
I cannot confirm or deny what the ACTUAL injuries are but that information will come out, I'm sure. Furthermore, when someone is injured it usually takes a few days for injuries to become full-blown, meaning what we see initially is only the beginning.
When the video is enhanced, we can clearly see the man has an injury on the back of his head. It looks nasty too! That is consistent with the story he told the police, that Treyvon hit his head on the ground/pavement/whatever.
There appears to be some nitpicking going on from the liberal crowd concerning WHERE Zimmerman's head was injured. I'm not sure and the articles that I have read have said, "ground," "pavement," "concrete," "grass," "sidewalk," and some have even said different things in the SAME article. Whatever the case may be, the police obviously took the statement from the witness and Zimmerman and concluded that his story was consistent. This is why he was not arrested.
Also, Zimmerman has a neighbor that states:
"I saw George. He was banged up. His head had two big bandages, that weren't flat, had a bump on them," the neighbor, who did not want to be identified, said.
He described where the injuries were.
"I seen him have a big bandage on his nose and his nose swollen. On the side, where his eyes were at, it was swollen," he said.
4) George Zimmerman's father has connections and this is why George was not arrested.
Zimmerman’s father, 64-year-old Robert Zimmerman of Lake Mary, Fla., is a retired magistrate from Virginia. He told television station WOFL last week that no one involved in the investigation knew about his former job, and he didn’t tell them. Magistrates in Virginia are not full-blown judges. They used to be called justices of the peace. They have limited authority and conduct no trials. Some are not lawyers. They typically issue arrest warrants, search warrants and set bail.According to some of the comments I have heard across the internet, these claims concerning George's father are flat out lies, complete with full-on paranoia. It seems these same people who are so ready to find George guilty are also peddling conspiracies. First they want us to believe that Martin was tiny, innocent, and now that we know that is a lie, they have turned to the world of absurdity by attacking Zimmerman's father.
When it comes to dealing with Martin's supporters, it is very clear that they are running on pure emotion. They do not want to allow local law enforcement to handle the situation and anything less than Zimmerman's head on a platter will not satisfy them. They are not concerned about anyone claiming self defense and now we have people advocating that citizens should not be armed. Oh but I guess criminals should be armed?
5) Zimmerman is claiming self-defense. As of me writing this post, I cannot find any evidence to suggest that this information is not true. Whatever may or may not have happened this night, all we have is Zimmerman's statement and the witness who saw Treyvon on top of him. That's it. We have people who heard cries and the gunshot but not much else. As it stands, Zimmerman's story has held up and that is why he was not arrested.
6) There are some new stories about voice analysis and experts saying that it was NOT Zimmerman screaming but, this is questionable for a few reasons ...1) Treyvon had no other injuries so, there would be no reason for him to be screaming in pain. 2) We know the witness said Treyvon was on top of Zimmerman so, it stands to reason that Treyvon was, at that point, the aggressor causing pain. It makes more sense that Zimmerman was the one screaming. 3) I'm not exactly sure how this voice analysis works however, being someone that was trained in science, I do know that equipment that measures anything must be calibrated. This requires samples. The samples, are from the recordings of the 911 calls. These are clearly second hand and, in addition, the voice would have been a great distance from the phone. The equipment would not have calibrated a direct sample, so noise and other factors would effect its purity. In addition, while a voice analyzer might be able to easily identify a voice that is at normal speaking level, it does seem doubtful that it would be able to take a normal talking voice and identify it while its screaming, especially one from an unknown distance. I would believe that a known scream from Zimmerman, given as a sample would have to be obtained.
More from Zimmerman's neighbor:
The neighbor says Zimmerman had to have acted in self-defense.
"I think something happened that night where he had to defend himself," the neighbor said.
He says that the voice heard screaming on the 911 call is that of George Zimmerman.
"I hear his voice every single day, I talk to him every single day," he said.The article I linked to above does say this:
Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. "They're all particular to the individual."
Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.This Owen concludes that the voice is Treyvon's however, the article goes on to mention:
Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings.So, from the information I am getting it sounds like this is similar to a lie detector test, maybe?
Another bit of a gem I ran across is that this Owen character was hired by the Matin's. This took some digging as most the stories I found made no mention of this fact.
Three witnesses say that the voice sounded like Zimmerman’s, including one key witness who according to sworn statement stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman “pounding him”. The story fails to mention that Owens has been retained by the attorneys for the Martin family.I found another article:
Primeau isn’t involved in the Martin investigation, but he says that, ideally, an ID is made against a recording of someone speaking normally for a few minutes. Analyzing a recording like the 911 call — where the voice in question isn’t speaking in normal tones, and is in the background — is something Primeau describes as “emergency voice identification.”
“This case is a little bit different because we’ve got someone screaming in the background and the phone is picking up what it can,” he says. “It’s going to be a little more difficult to come up with scientific conclusions, but it’s possible. This is an exact science.”Which basically confirms what I said before. The samples this Owen analyzed were not taken directly from Zimmerman, the screams were only in the background on a recorded call. For this guy to say that he is positive that it's not Zimmerman sounds silly to me. What do you think?
7) One other thing I want to point out is that I keep hearing people who think that because the screams stopped after the gunshot, that this somehow proves the scream wasn't Zimmerman. I am not sure how one can arrive at that conclusion. Could it not also be said that because Zimmerman was no longer having to defend himself at that point that the he stopped screaming? Of course. So this idea that because the screams stopped after the gunshot proves anything, other than the confrontation ended, is just bizarre. Some people on the left are very limited in their thinking and with the research I have done these past few days, that fact has become very apparent to me.
Okay...I'm done for now. I am not sure this case is going away soon so, I will most likely be back to update or write a new post.
Let's just try and remain calm here. Yes, I think Zimmerman is innocent but, I am willing to take in new evidence. I'm willing to admit if I'm wrong. We ALL need to be willing to admit we could be wrong. This means being honest with the evidence and honest with one another. Please let us remember we are Americans and we need to protect people's rights to protect themselves...even if they are Hispanic or white. Blacks too need to have their rights protected, if they are defending themselves but, this case just does not have enough information to throw Zimmerman away. We can't just go after him with mob justice. We are a country of laws. Let's keep it that way.
No, no, no...we are NOT perfect. There will be bad things and good things and nothing will change that. This is the best system on earth. Nothing is perfect. We can only support the best we can. We cannot allow feelings and hatred to divide us.
38 comments:
Awesome open minded obsevations. Will be watching the case as well as your input. The circumstances of this event, and not saying a crime is unusual because of media and an over reactive race issue. Remove any race card here and we have a simpler puzzle. No matter who was where or why, two people put themselves in a bad situation where one was to die and one to be judged for it. Thanks for a fine read.
To Tuesday Money, you came up with all these stuffs about Zimmerman is innocent and Martin is guilty of hitting him. Did the coroner find any scratches on Martin's knuckles? My information says no. If Zimmerman is so innocent, why did he confront Martin when the kid was just walking through? Both the police 911 dispatcher and the By-law of the neighborhood told him to keep distance and just report the irregularity to the authorities. My take is that Zimmerman saw an easy target, maybe he, Zimmerman had fight with his wife that night and wanted to take it out on somebody. He saw an easy target to bully around. So, he accosted the kid with the intention to slap him around a little. But he met a kid who "stand his ground", so he got into a fight with the kid. I believe he got the better end, there are witnesses who said they saw Zimmerman on top, not Martin. I heard the voice on 911 tape, and I have never heard a Caucasian man the size of Zimmerman has a such a falsetto that is normally belongs to a black man, or boy in this case. My take is that here a man who has been bullying other younger men around, he mistook a victim who fought back, so he pulled his ultimate power, to take the life of a kid. A scuffle is not a justification to kill, you idiot.
All I have to say is that U are delusional to believe this non sense. How would you like to have a son who was minding his business walking home and get interupted by a asshole who obviously got a problem following him. Making assumptions to 911 (dummy) that someone is on drugs like he gave a drug test. Let's cut through the chase Zimmerman was not minding his own business nor was he able to exersize common sense and not approach Treyvon as he was told not to.
His story don't add up, if he was attacked when he was walking back to his car. Why was Treyvon shot and killed between houses in a grassy area nowhere near his car. Who cares about pictures, this one was big, this picture is old the facts will tell it all. The bottom line is a young boy who was unarmed was shot and killed. Zimmerman is not dead but he does get to live a pittyful life either way it goes (and justice will be served no doubt).
Zimmerman had a police record of domestic violence and assaulting an officer. Treyvon did not have a police record if he was such a bad kid he would have had a record. He is not the first kid and won't be the last kid to be caught with pot or suspended from school.
you said yourself this is the best system on earth so why do you find it hard to believe in modern technolgy. Why would bully Zimmerman be screaming with a gun. (help me, help me I got a gun I'm scared shitless) he's a punk, Treyvon probably got some good shots in before he shot him.
Stop writting stupidity...it's obvious you do not have any children. Since you are a Zimmerman lover maybe you can give him shelter while he hides from society. you two can be dumb and dumber. And don't forget when Zimmerman get's the book throwned at him remember I told you so.
All the rhetoric aside....
It sounds to me like "The Stand Your Ground" Law is written in such piss poor language that it is the underlying cause for such an event to unfold the way it did. Many Many people are upset that A shooter was not even held in custody until he could prove in court why what he did was self defense.
When you claim self defense, two things happen.
1. You have just admitted to the shooting.
2. You now carry what's called "the burden of
proof", which means you are no longer
innocent until proven guilty in A court of
law, it is now up to you to prove why self
defense was necessary.
Bottom line is he was the aggressor who put himself in a situation by attempting to follow/approach Treyvon. This was a very very stupid thing to do. I'm not saying Zimmerman is guilty. Ill I'm saying is he needs to explain to a jury why he did what he says he had to do.
If Zimmerman stayed in his car-Treyvon would still be alive. What reason did he have to exit the car? Especially when he was already told to stop following him by dispatcher. He wanted to be a Big Tough Guy. This wannabe cop made a wrong asumption about Treyvon-"He looks like he's on drugs", "He's up to no good" just by the color of his skin. If Zimmerman Muttering "F****** Coon" under his breath on tape-and yes you ass, it is on tape-doesn't convince you he's racist maybe only a KKK Grand Wizard hat only will. THIS IS GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S FAULT. If he would just admit his mistake, take a plea and give Treyvon's family some respect he might still be able to have some sort of a life. But short of that his life will never be normal again-Oh well, maybe he can marry Casey Anthony.
would this be a HUGE story if both parties were the same color?
"When you claim self defense, two things happen.
1. You have just admitted to the shooting.
2. You now carry what's called "the burden of
proof", which means you are no longer
innocent until proven guilty in A court of
law, it is now up to you to prove why self
defense was necessary."
Not true.
The defense of "self defense" is what's called an "affirmative defense." The prosecution must disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt.
While the law on self-defense usually varies by state, generally a person is justified in using physical force when it's necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by the other person.
How much force can you exert in self-defense? Only the amount you reasonably believe is necessary to defend yourself or another person from an unlawful use of force.
Can you ever respond to an attack or threat of an attack by using deadly force? Deadly physical force may be used only if you reasonably believe:
A lesser degree of force is inadequate to stop the other person, and
You or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured
You aren't justified in using physical force if you provoke the use of unlawful physical force by another person. And you can't justify your use of force if you're the initial aggressor - meaning you started the fight - unless you stop using force first and the other person continues using force.
Some states have "make my day" or "castle" laws that let people use deadly physical force against an intruders they believe have unlawfully entered their home with the intent to commit a crime once inside. These laws assume that citizens have a right to expect absolute safety within their homes.
http://criminal.lawyers.com/v2/Criminal-Law-Basics/Criminal-Law--Defenses-FAQ.html?refurl=1
Oh, and yes, I do have a daughter. I would hope that people would be more reasonable and realize that people have a right to protect themselves. Zimmernam was not arrested for a reason. There is nothing to prove he was not defending himself.
"All I have to say is that U are delusional to believe this non sense. How would you like to have a son who was minding his business walking home and get interupted by a asshole who obviously got a problem following him."
How would you like to have a son who felt he was protecting his neighbors and was attacked to the point where he felt he had to shoot someone to protect himself? Now your son has to deal with people lying about him and putting a target on his head...how would YOU feel?
Emotional appeal is powerful but again, it's emotional and has no bearing on the facts of this case. You don't know; you weren't there, neither was I. Zimmerman claims self-defense. So far, authorities cannot prove him wrong.
You are embellishing information to suit your pre-conceived narrative.
"..was attacked when he was walking back to his car. Why was Treyvon shot and killed between houses in a grassy area nowhere near his car."
I could be blocks away and still make a choice to walk back to my car. This is a bizarre point that makes no sense. Distance does not determine where a person is intending on going. You do realize that, do you not?
"Zimmerman had a police record of domestic violence and assaulting an officer. Treyvon did not have a police record if he was such a bad kid he would have had a record. He is not the first kid and won't be the last kid to be caught with pot or suspended from school."
Treyvon had a record of being a very disturbed child. That is well recorded by his multiple suspensions. Just because he's not the "first kid" doesn't mean that you should be so accepting of that and regard it as normal behavior. My goodness, why would we ever want to lower our standards like that? If your child were suspended that many times, I would think that you might be concerned, not dismiss it as "normal" or "acceptable." I'm not sure why it seems Treyvon's parents weren't concerned. I can't get inside their heads but I would hope they were seeking help for their son, not dismissing it as business as usual.
Although, as I said before, the chances of Treyvon's past being considered during the legal process is nil. The reason I bring it up is because it does seem to lend credit to Zimmerman's claim that this kid was probably doing something suspicious.
As for Zimmerman:
In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders’ being granted.
In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.
Okay...so a speeding ticket? I'm not approving but, I'm not aware of too many people who haven't gotten a speeding ticket. Usually people just pay the fine. Sounds like he took a risk, calculating the officer not to show up. Eh...not exactly a violent crime.
I don't really recall anyone I knew during high school being suspended from school THREE times.
The restraining orders may or may not play a role. This sounds like he was in a BAD relationship that was extremely unhealthy. This can happen to anyone. Again, it may or may not indicate something bad on his part.
The arrest does look bad and I can definitely see where people would want this brought up as showing Zimmerman having a history of anger/violence. Fair enough but, remember it was in 2005. He's gone seven years without having incident and Treyvon was actually suspended from school at the time of his passing.
So, there IS a difference here. I'm not sure about you but going back seven years seems to be a little unfair but, again...does it matter? If Treyvon's actions *at the time* of his passing will not be considered in court, I can almost assure you that Zimmerman's past from SEVEN YEARS ago will also not be considered, both being ruled prejudicial.
So, we have come full circle and we are still left with the FACTS, not emotions. The facts support Zimmerman's claim to self defense.
"you said yourself this is the best system on earth so why do you find it hard to believe in modern technolgy. Why would bully Zimmerman be screaming with a gun. (help me, help me I got a gun I'm scared shitless) he's a punk, Treyvon probably got some good shots in before he shot him."
I do believe in modern technology. I know quite a bit how it works. I am trained in the sciences. This particular equipment, I have not used but I did do some research. First the analyzer was hired by the Martins, something many articles did not mention. Second, I already spoke about calibration. Raw samples are the best way for this equipment to work accurately, after that, recorded voices with normal speaking works well. Screaming that is recorded at an unknown distance, without a controlled scream-sample taken directly from Zimmerman would be the least reliable. That has nothing to do with the equipment not working. It has to do with purity of samples. The less information we have to compare a sample with a known-sample, the less determination we can make. If 90 percent is considered positive, then half is 45, and 48 percent actually seems to suggest it could very well be Zimmerman.
I do not assume that Zimmerman wanted to use his weapon. YOU do, based on speculation. I heard those screams and if they were Zimmerman (which I believe), then it is clear he waited quite a long time, and took quite a beating before he decided to use his weapon in defense. The witness says that Zimmerman was on the ground, being attacked, and he was screaming. If Zimmerman was so trigger happy, it would make much more sense for him to use his gun immediately.
"Stop writting stupidity...it's obvious you do not have any children. "
Did you read your post? I have to say, it was pretty difficult to read. Your bad grammar, poor spelling, and anger issues came across much stronger than any logic you tried to muster.
I do have a child. I'm not sure how that has any bearing on this case. Again, emotional appeal has nothing to do with proving FACTS or disproving them.
It will be up to the state to PROVE Zimmerman did not defend himself. Innocent until proven guilty.
Thank you all for you comments!
"A scuffle is not a justification to kill, you idiot."
An emotional post with insults. This is exactly what I am referring to. When all you have is emotion and nasty insults, it does not help your argument and only further drives the point home that many of you are refusing to look at the FACTS. Try to let your hatred and prejudice go for a moment.
You were NOT there. Neither was I, but suggest it was just a "scuffle" is absurd. Did you not see the injury on his head? Did you ignore the police report, the neighbor, his father, the screams on the call, etc.? EVEN IF you think that was Treyvon screaming (which I obviously disagree with), you can't possibly turn around and then say it was "just a scuffle," now can you?
If you listen to the call you can hear Zimmerman stop breathing heavy and he said, "okay" when asked not to follow Treyvon. He then says something to the effect that "he's just staring at me and coming towards me." Interesting that Treyvon did not just go about 100 ft to where he was staying. Zimmerman also says the kid ran, and he lost him. So, you cannot follow someone that you lost.
As I mentioned before, when you are looking at evidence, you need to be objective. If you continue to place bets on both sides of the aisle, (like saying the screams were Treyvon yet simultaneously suggesting it was "just a scuffle" not warranting deadly force), in hopes that something you say "sticks" then it is clear that you are only concerned about what YOU want to see and not the facts of the case.
I'm not sure about marks on Treyvon's hands? You are more than welcome to post a link for that. I have not heard he had any injuries other than the gunshot, further suggesting that Zimmerman was not the one who attacked him. A person does not necessarily have marks on their hands after they punch someone.
Again, think about the information we HAVE, not what we WANT to have and then you will see that you can have your opinion, but be open to the idea of being wrong. The grand jury will have the opportunity to look at everything without the MEDIA opinion and spin. That is what we need here...so, let's wait and see.
Man, you have spent so much time posting for zimmerman did it ever cause you to think, that no matter how much Martin weighed the gun gave Zimmerman a upper hand. For what reason does a neighberhood watch guy carry a gun, and even when he is told to stay in his car and just report what the teen is doing, him and his gun get out and because he look different (as he should) he and his gun took a life. My throught is killing a black male is open season and no jail time but hurt a dog and you go to jail for almost life..WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN THAT! this man had nothing else to do, and NO matter how it looks the truth is he has taken a life, and he did not have the right to do so.
Well, that's your OPINION and you are certainly entitled to have one. However, before you go around bashing a man, calling him a racist, and calling him a cold-blooded killer, maybe you should think about letting the law handle the situation and figure it out.
I found someone who has written an excellent piece that may put things into perspective for you and anyone else that would like to read:
http://feenix.hubpages.com/hub/Obama-Has-Maliciously-And-Viciously-Violated-George-Zimmermanss-Civil-Rights
I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent but I am saying that I'm not ready to jump on this bandwagon of hate. We just don't know. We weren't there. Even if Zimmerman is guilty as sin, he still deserves a trial.
Based on what we know, I just cannot yet make these leaps of him being guilty.
Why call the police at all? Why invite them to the scene? Why was he held for five hours, never asked for an attorney, and has been cooperative, if he is so guilty?
The only thing that answers these questions in a logical manner is that he was indeed defending himself. He may have been nosy; he may have been fed up with the break-ins in his neighborhood, but last I checked THAT is not illegal.
Let the grand jury decide...
Your evidence is all based on hearsay. I heard the 911 calls from Zimmerman and neighbors. This entire post is a fallacy a redirection of the argument that Zimmerman was the aggressor followed Martin, (you hear him running after Martin possibly saying a racial slur) fought with the kid and shot him. If you start a fight with someone, then begin to lose and shoot because of it...then it is manslaughter. If we are going into history... Zimmerman was more of a criminal with a violent past than Martin. Just check his rap sheet. Some people need to use common sense on this one. Let’s not even talk about the police’s handling of the case. I mean are you serious?
i'm hearing bias on both sides. fact is none of us were there. poor judgement was used by zimmerman. he may or may not have been jumped by martin.
as far as zimmerman carrying a gun goes, he has the right just as anyone 21 and over without a felony conviction does. each state has it's own requirements as far as a permit to carry a concealed weapon goes.
i have to get mine renewed every year and there is a background check and waiting period involved in obtaining it. be warned i carry a couple of guns so assault me at your own risk. break into my house with the intent of committing a crime and expect to be shot.
i'm more interested in seeing justice served for whoever deserves it than i am about making this about racism. i don't have enough facts to say if that is martin or zimmerman. my OPINION is that zimmerman was over zealous and would have gone after any teen he didn't know no matter what color their skin was. my SUSPICION is that there may be some truth to zimmerman's story about martin jumping him.
if my understanding is right, zimmerman should have stayed in his car and martin should have gone into his father's house and called the police himself. i THINK both men made bad decisions that cost one of them his life.
i FEEL like simmerman is probably guilty of manslaughter but i have not been presented all the evidence, i have not been selected for a jury, and i am not a judge.
people, we just don't know. we are unfortunately being lead by our emotions and a corrupt media that is more concerned with making advertising dollars than presenting the facts.
i don't think we know the "whole truth" yet. let's not lynch the man. let's let the proper authorities do their job.
since when are civilians allowed to question other civilians.u can t go look for trouble and claim self defence.fact we kno treyvon was mindin his own business walkin down the street b4 he was confronted by zimmerman. Y did he look suspecious? Since when is walkin on a street a crime.if u notice someone followin u would u not fear for ur life? we dnt kno what led to the shootin bt we do kno treyvon lost his life because zimmerman did somethin he was not suppose to do.he was not suppose to follow him and he defintly was not suppose to confront him.soo its his fault,u dont take the law into ur hands thats y we have police officers.he should have left it alone after he called 911.soo yeah just for that i think he deserves sum time in jail.someones child is death because of his lack of judgement thats a big deal.HE IS DEATH,i dnt care abt both backgrounds or race.just from da facts he is guilty for involuntary manslaughter.
What makes this a racists case. Im a Black guy 23 years old and I just hate that my people always turn something into a problem of race. This case is getting out of hand and sone of the poeple who are rallying about this are not thinking... There was a white guy who killed a black boy..... ok so what it happen preety much every day... black boys kill white guys and can sometimes get away with it too... I'm not saying T. martin was or wasn't killed because he was black... but how do you know for sure if it was racial...People you cannot assume that every thing is a racist problem. THINK!!! From what was said T. martin as killed because of self defense that all that we know because that all that was reported... No one know what the true story is. So G. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty... for all we know he can be telling the truth... he has the benefit of the doubt. I'm neither for or against G zimmerman but i do think he s entitled to a fair trial... Most people say that the law is on G. zimmerman's side well then if thats the case he will never be indited. But the may never be a real case because all the truth and evidence has been tampered with so much that he will pretty much walk away unless the start from a clean slate.
"Your evidence is all based on hearsay."
Direct testimony from Zimmerman and an eyewitness is not hearsay.
"I heard the 911 calls from Zimmerman and neighbors. This entire post is a fallacy a redirection of the argument that Zimmerman was the aggressor followed Martin, (you hear him running after Martin possibly saying a racial slur) fought with the kid and shot him."
No, there is no racial slur. He says, "It's f@cking cold." You are quick to claim racism but where is your proof? That he's a registered democrat? That his best friend is black? That he lives in a neighborhood with lots of other blacks? Are you a racist? Do you hate Hispanics? It goes both ways.
There are no calls where you hear him running after him and fighting him. You are embellishing. You hear him running and then trying to find an address to tell the guy where he is. He says, "okay," after the operator tells him he doesn't need to follow the kid. Seconds later he says he lost the kid. Then he goes back to his truck. Stop inferring things that are not there. We don't know for sure since we weren't there but from what we hear, your version is totally wrong.
"If you start a fight with someone, then begin to lose and shoot because of it...then it is manslaughter."
Yet, you have no proof who started it and the law is going to have to prove that Zimmerman wasn't defending himself.
"If we are going into history... Zimmerman was more of a criminal with a violent past than Martin. Just check his rap sheet."
Really? A speeding ticket, a bad relationship, ad an arrest SEVEN YEARS ago???? Treyvon was suspended AT THE TIME of his passing. You're going to bring up something from over SEVEN YEARS ago? Man, I hope your past from that far back is spotless.
"Some people need to use common sense on this one."
Yeah, exactly.
"Let’s not even talk about the police’s handling of the case. I mean are you serious?"
What about them? They held him for five hours and not once did the man not cooperate. We don't arrest people who are defending themselves.
I'm not sure why it's hard to believe this kid may have been up to no good. 17 year olds are a$$holes, in case you haven't noticed. I don't see anyone coming forward talking about how Treyvon was a volunteer for his community, a straight A student, an all-star athlete, etc. Hell...anything. That's what happens when really stand up kids pass. It is VERY likely this kid was acting weird and drew attention and people have the right to protect their neighborhoods.
I have an opinion and I may be wrong but based on what we have here, I'm finding it very unlikely this kid was just walking home, doing nothing wrong, and was mercilessly attacked.
"i don't think we know the "whole truth" yet. let's not lynch the man. let's let the proper authorities do their job."
EXACTLY. We have laws for a reason and if anyone of us were in the horrible situation of having to defend ourselves and then we were railroaded like this, we'd all be looking at this a lot different.
Mob mentality and infringing on this man's rights will only hurt us in the end. Let the system work. If he's found guilty, throw the book at him but, that's up to the court.
U guys that are for z are talkin abt we dnt kno the whole truth lets not lynch da man..u are givin him da benefit of doubt.do u give treyvon de benefit of doubt too?or cause he is death it does not matter..people get attacked all da time for no reason do u watch da news?and not all 17 yrs old are assholes u just being ignorant.u dont want pple to jump into comclusions abt z then dnt jump into conclusions abt treyvon....and like u say let da court decide.
U keep talkin abt we have laws for a reason and he was defendin hself.z did not let the law do their job y was he followin him in da first place?he admited he was followin him...he is not suppose to do dat.everything after dat we can only speculate sooo u dnt kno either i z was is da one dat confronted him first.soo keep u biased opinion to urself.who cares abt their past what matters is wat happened dat nite.and if u choose not to take z past in co.sideration do da same for treyvon.dats being fair.and most americans have tried weed at least 1 time and ur child probably will too dat does nt make someone a bad person sooo u dnt have any facts either.because he says he was defendin himself does not mean dats wat haipened..they should use a lie detector test on him...bottom line if he does not go to jail somebody will kill him.
Good job, Tuesday! Have you seen poor lil Treyvon pic of himself with his boxers hanging out of his pants, flipping off with both hands, showing off his new tats and gold grill? Far cry from the pics of the boy when he was 12
"U guys that are for z are talkin abt..."
I would love to respond here but, I simply cannot make sense of what you have written.
Thank you for commenting, nonetheless.
"Good job, Tuesday! Have you seen poor lil Treyvon pic of himself with his boxers hanging out of his pants, flipping off with both hands, showing off his new tats and gold grill? Far cry from the pics of the boy when he was 12"
Thank you! I did see that pic but I'm not sure that was actually Treyvon. It does seem as though some people have posted pics of what they originally thought was Treyvon but have turned out to be friends instead. No matter, simply put, this kid was not he innocent, child the media initially touted him as. Usually when we see outstanding children who are taken from us abruptly and without provocation, we see testimony after testimony from people declaring that so-and-so was, "the nicest person in the world, a volunteer (of some sort), an outstanding athlete," etc. Notice how we do not hear this. Instead we have a Twitter and Facebook account that has the handle "No limit nigga" and messages eluding to people trying to procure marijuana from him.
It is what it is. I don't care if I look strange in anyone neighborhood. IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU OR ANYONE THE RIGHT TO TAKE MY LIFE OR ANYONE ELSE'S LIFE. NO IT DOESN'T. Especially, when Zimmerman was given instructions by the 911 operator. Zimmerman chose not to listen and do it his way. The story can go on for years of both involved parties background but lets stay focused on the issue as adults. Race, Weight, background and whatever else comes up. The issue is Zimmerman should have not taken this kids life and that is manslaughter. Even if the judicial system finds Zimmerman not guilty this is something Zimmerman has to live with for the rest of his life. No matter how tough you are everyone has a conscious and only GOD will judge.
Insightful article. I'm not saying Treyvon was an angel. It seems that he was a very troubled teenager. However, if you use Treyvon's history, you must also use George's. He has a violent past. So now you have two individuals with problems. I also think that none of this would have happened had George not followed Treyvon. Apparently he wasn't out burglarizing because he only had Skittles and Sweet Tea. So the fact remains, George instigated the event. Let's let the State Attorney decide whether shooting the boy was justifiable.
This site sucks. Black. White. Tall. Short. Fat. Skinny. Who gives a fuck?!? Get serious! Where is the justice? It's going to be interesting to see how the nation takes to the outcome of this case.
It's a sad situation and an opportunity for us all to take a look within ourselves. At this day and age racism should be dead. Out with the old and in with the new, as they say. Kids born in the 80s, 90s and for sure the 2000s, should not be racist. But the cycle continues. Something that took place years ago still lives today because we cannot accept someone for being different. God made us different for a purpose. What is that purpose? I haven't a clue. But I do know to appreciate someone who is different from me and to learn about them and their culture. It's enlightening.
We all breathe the same air. We all bleed red. We all hurt and love, laugh and cry. SMH
We are all Human.
BNEW
"Insightful article. I'm not saying Treyvon was an angel. It seems that he was a very troubled teenager. However, if you use Treyvon's history, you must also use George's."
I think that's fine and the media has blown this up as well. Zimmerman got in trouble SEVEN years ago. He had a speeding ticket, he was clearly involved in a very unhealthy relationship, and he was arrested. This was in his very early 20's. He hasn't had any problems for over SEVEN years, while Treyvon was actually suspended at the time of his death.
There is nothing wrong with considering a person's past, as long as it's put into context.
Also, if there is a trial ...it is doubtful that either of their pasts will be mentioned at all. Typically that stuff is thrown out due to being prejudicial. The ONLY reason I have brought it up is because it does seem to support Zimmerman's observation that this kid may have been doing something that looked odd or suspicious.
Thank you for the comments! Agree or disagree, this story doesn't seem to be going away. I just hope that the internet can help us learn from one another...things can be debated passionately without violence.
"It's a sad situation and an opportunity for us all to take a look within ourselves. At this day and age racism should be dead."
There is nothing that you said that I disagree with. So why are you insisting this is a race issue? This isn't a race issue. The media is telling you it is. Take race out of it.
Racism should be dead but people in the media are desperate to divide us and that is why they making this a race issue. Look at the history of the democrats in this nation. They gave us slavery, Jim Crow laws, fought against civil rights (actual physical altercations), started the KKK, suggested that blacks were only 3/4 human, and when all those strategies failed, they went the other way by advocating "special rights" like affirmative action -- which is STILL racism because you are required to look at the color of someone's skin!
Now look at what the liberals are doing...here you have a local case, where a guy is claiming self-defense, no one can prove otherwise, yet we are being dragged into this and pitted against one another. It's a liberal, wet-dream. They love when races fight.
With a little more thought and understanding of history, I'm confident that anyone can see how transparent this truly is.
Best of luck and thank you for the comment!
As a conservative and a law student, I am bothered by your analysis because you lack all of the facts. Have you listened to all of the 911 tapes? There are two witnesses that clearly state (as they are watching the altercation take place in real time... moments before the gun shot) that the person on top is in a white shirt. We know for a fact that the Martin was not wearing a white shirt. Zimmerman himself describes Martin's dark gray hoodie in his 911 call. Therefore, one must conclude the person on top was Zimmerman literally seconds before the gun shot. If you listen to the tapes, you clearly hear the gun shot within seconds of the description. The account you are referring to of Martin on top was reported after the shooting and not verified by a 911 call or even a second person. The 911 tapes are clear and, I would think, free from any form bias or motive because no one in those tapes knew what was going to happen. I am appalled that this has become so biased on both sides. This should not be about liberal or conservative or black versus white. Such arguments are straw man arguments and are invalid. This is about the law and did Zimmerman commit a crime. If you look at the evidence free from color or political bias and listen especially to all of the 911 calls, probable cause is easily established for at least charging Zimmerman with a criminal offense. He did not stand his ground. Look even at the location of Martin's death. If he turned back and went after Zimmerman, why was Martin killed a few yards from his father's home? Also, why were they not in the parking lot where Zimmerman was clearly told to stay with his truck? He claims he went back to his truck, but he was in a court yard on the other side of the building. They are too many problems with Zimmerman's story, and I think you will find this is only the tip of the iceberg and there will be legal validation for the charges brought today.
We, as conservatives, do ourselves a great disservice when we automatically jump to support someone with so many holes in their story. We need to look at it logistically. If you were walking down the street and a man was following you and then running after you ( in Zimmerman's call you can clearly hear him running...he is winded and it causes the operator to ask if he is following him) how would you react? We need to strip away all the liberal mantra and look at the facts. If we do not, we hurt only ourselves because then our gun rights are attacked. The stand your ground law is under extreme attack but not because of Martin because of Zimmerman. He was no within the scope of the law. He pursued Martin. He did not stand his ground even if Martin turned around and attacked him, he should not have been following him as he was told not to do. We need to let the facts show what they may and look at them openly, and then we need to let the responsible party, which I believe is Zimmerman based on ALL the 911 calls, and there is over an hour worth of them to listen to if you will, and the location of the crime, be prosecuted, not the gun laws. Zimmerman is unstable. Look at his history and the number of complaints against him from his own neighbors. Was Martin perfect? Absolutely not! But, if you are going to bring up his past, you must also give credence to Zimmerman's. I don't think anyone can write off assault or domestic abuse even if it was several years ago. It speaks to an obvious lack of self control.
Now, I am no fan of Jackson or Sharpton. As a matter of fact, I abhor them and they probably have a political agenda. We, however, need to be the bigger people and call a spade a spade. If the evidence is there, we need to step off the conservative bandwagon for Zimmerman that is willing to look past the issues. Then we need to stand up for our rights and acknowledge when they are abused and shun the one who abuses them. Otherwise, we may end up fighting for a guilty man at the expense of 2nd amendment rights. We are better than that!
I hope ifzimmerman is found guilty that white people riot and burn shit and beat up bystanders
Sounds to me like Treyvon got what he had coming! I am sick of people taking treyvons side because thay do not want to piss black people off! If OJ got off, then Zimerman should not even stand trial! I am sick of everyone taking the sides of thugs! All of what Zimmerman has said has held up! But God forbid anyone piss off black people!
@Jamie Roughton I will have to come back and read more but the calls I heard only heard the fight and heard the shot. You'll have to post a link for me because that is not what I heard.
Also, Zimmerman was wearing red and that was the reason he was easily identified by the eyewitness. The others that have popped up here and there were very elusive and said that they really couldn't see anything.
If you found more, please link them. Also understand that as days go by more and more stuff comes out. This post is several days old. I have posted a new one and you can find that by clicking the title of the blog. It's called Zimmerman arrested.
Thank you all for the comments guys!
" The account you are referring to of Martin on top was reported after the shooting and not verified by a 911 call or even a second person."
Not sure what you're talking about. I have the video on my blog, in a previous post. There was most certainly a witness that confirmed Treyvon on top of Z, beating him.
http://www.the-alternative-conservative.com/2012_03_01_archive.html
"Also, why were they not in the parking lot where Zimmerman was clearly told to stay with his truck?"
Zimmerman was tying to give authorities a location. He was looking up at the house numbers in order to give them some information. He also did stop breathing heavy and said he had lost the kids location. Here is a timeline:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony
I really don't disagree with you but so far, I'm not convinced he did anything wrong. Zimmerman has a right to walk in his neighborhood too. He was putting the kid on alert. I get that. Might be stupid but not illegal. He should not have to fear his own neighborhood!
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong but this man has had his rights stripped away, he has been railroaded. If we don't stand up for him, who's going to stand up for us when we are in his shoes? You think it can't happen? Well, I'm not convinced Zimmerman thought it could happen to him either.
Thank you!
@"What makes this a racists case..."
For some reason, your comment initially went into SPAM and I am very sorry about that!
I think your comment is wonderful! It's very refreshing to see more and more black folks seeing through the media hype. The fact is, YES there is racism in this country and no one with a brain would deny that but, we need to be more selective with what we call racist. When we keep throwing this word around and just make assumptions that are not based on facts, we devalue the meaning of that word and take away from the REAL racist issues that actually do effect people.
Fact is, if Zimmerman is a racist, we will most likely hear something about this. Maybe the state has evidence we just do not know about? Anything is possible but we all should wait for those facts before saying anything.
The whole black-white-hispanic, racist this, racist that...it's just not as common anymore. I personally don't know anyone that worries about that, except for old people. I really don't see anything in this case that has to do with race. If I see evidence otherwise, I will gladly admit to my folly.
Thank you for the comments!
I agree with Tuesday Morning. No one knows the whole story and people are jumping to conclusions because it was a black kid shot by a white/hispanic man. That really is the basis of all of this media frenzy. I can guarantee you that if a black man had shot ahnd killed a white 17 year old and claimed self defense jesse jackson and Al Sharpton wouldn't be saying a word!! Race has no basis here and it's sad that black people make everything out to be racist. What about the young couple that was brutally raped in murdered in 2007 by 5 black people and it never got national media attention? yes there is racism still but it goes both ways! Until people learn to stop juding someone by the color of their skin it will always remain and again it goes both ways! Black Panthers are just as bad as the KKK and I think both are disgusting! Like you said, emotions need to be taken out of it and needs to be looked at with an open mind before you come to the conclusion that he just shot him because he was a black kid.
Treyvon Martin is where he and Oscar Grant should be. The only good nigger is a dead nigger. The world should exterminate that race.
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